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In this episode of ‘Behind The Experience’ we dive into the world of experience marketing with Clare Cahill, Head of Experience Marketing, APAC at Adobe. Clare shares how to enhance experiences with technology, explores the relationship between digital and physical experiences, and defines that value of both.
 
“I think the beauty of digital, the absolute beauty of digital is that breadth and volume, but also the personalisation now is becoming so much better. Especially in the B2B space, we're really starting to be able to craft how you talk to your customer.”
 
 
This interview was recorded prior to COVID-19 impacting the event industry. Key learnings can taken from Clare's insight into the relationship between live and digital experiences and the strategies that drive them. 
 

Listen to 'Behind The Experience' on all available platforms here. 

Learn more about Adobe here:
https://www.adobe.com/au/

Make sure to check out more from Sense at www.sensegroup.com.au

 

Read the full interview.

 

Mark Bennedick:
Thanks for tuning into Behind the Experience. I'm your host, Mark Bennedick, co-founder and director of Sense Group here in Sydney, and today, we're incredibly excited to be joined by Claire Cahill, head of experience marketing APAC at Adobe. Welcome to the show, Clare.

Clare Cahill:
Thanks. It's great to be here, Mark.

Mark Bennedick:
Great to have you, and thanks for just taking the opportunity to talk to us. We're really excited. Clare made her start in experiences in the UK, where she worked in the technology sector, and Clare moved into consultancy, where she worked with brands such as Fuji Xerox, EFI, WatchGuard, and, more recently, Adobe.

Having been at Adobe for the past 14 years, Clare's brought countless value to their APAC team, and even awarded marketer of the year at the software company three times during her time with them. Three times, Clare.

Clare Cahill:
Yeah.

Mark Bennedick:
What's going on there?

Clare Cahill:
Oh, well, it's all at different points in my career, where I was doing different things, and I've actually worked across many teams. So, yeah, it's been a great opportunity and great recognition and very humbling to get that award each year that I have.

Mark Bennedick:
Well, you're obviously doing something right there. You've always been drawn to both tech, having started in that industry and still in that industry, and experiences. I mean, what is it about that combination that you love or feel drawn to?

Clare Cahill:
Yeah, I found my love of tech when I got my first VIC-20 computer when I was about 13 and started a bit of coding. So I'm a little bit of a geek.

Mark Bennedick:
Oh, wow. You've even got the developer skills in there as well.

Clare Cahill:
Well, not so much these days. But I think the beauty of where we are with technology today and certainly over the last few years and experiences is that you can enhance the overall experience with technology and really cause some amazing experiences today. I mean, I feel like we're on this trajectory with experiences with technology right now that we wouldn't have had when I started back 20, 25 years ago.

Mark Bennedick:
It's interesting as well that, these days, experience is so much about getting people away from their technology and having human contact, but then subsequently technology is then also now being used to enhance the experience.

It's kind of this strange full circle almost, isn't it, in a way?

Clare Cahill:
It is. It is a bit of both. I think that the in-person experience, the face-to-face, there's a visceral connection that happens that you don't get when you're in the digital space. So we run our events both in the digital space and in a physical space like a Symposium, but, human to human, there's an oxytocin thing that happens when you connect with people.

Mark Bennedick:
Chemistry.

Clare Cahill:
You get the chemistry, right, that you just ... You can't replicate that if you're just in pure digital, but you can leverage digital as part of the experience to really cause more of an interaction and a chemical interaction as well.

Mark Bennedick:
So tell me about what's your day-to-day at Adobe as the head of experience?

Clare Cahill:
Yeah.

Mark Bennedick:
What are you doing? You walk in the door. What's your typical day like there?

Clare Cahill:
There'll be a lot of meetings, as most people these days, but I think we are ... My team basically own the strategy for experience for the region. So under that sits our flagship events, such as Symposium, and a couple of other events that we run or are responsible for delegations to.

Clare Cahill:
A lot of it's about the planning, to make sure that everything happens and it happens well, and the customer experience is actually central to that every time.

So every time we're working through that, we're looking back to see how it's going to affect the customer and what they're going to think, feel, and do as part of that. So a lot of that time in those meetings is by just getting that right every time.

Mark Bennedick:
Getting that right?

Clare Cahill:
Yeah.

Mark Bennedick:
Because Adobe is, I guess, essentially born out of a creative thought… Initially, with a lot of those creative programs, which people typically think about with Adobe, like Photoshop and all these types of things as well.

Then I guess they're very tech-based, and it's amazing how the company seems to sort of have adapted lately to some newer platforms and things like that. Then Symposium, obviously, is a very well-known event in the tech world. Well, I mean, maybe it's worth explaining what Symposium is, maybe for some people that don't know what Symposium is all about and what that means for Adobe and what that brings, I guess, to the business or also even just to the customers or the people that come to that event.

Clare Cahill:
So I might just start off by just pointing back to something you said earlier. So Adobe's products are born out of experience. If we look back to Illustrator, Illustrator as a product was created by Chuck and John because John's wife was a graphic designer and she kept breaking her pens when she was drawing on [inaudible 00:04:57]. In the old days, some people may remember this, they used to explode.

So that's how Illustrator was born. It was born out of love for his wife and her frustration with having to hand-draw things. If we take it back to how we are today and how we create experiences with things like Symposium, Symposium has been our flagship event in region. We run a few of these around the region. They're run globally, and they're events that basically allow us to take our technology and our customer voices out to the wider market and let people see how the technology can help and enhance their experiences for their customers, for our digital experience part of the business.

Clare Cahill:
So that's all about helping marketers to create more personalised real-time experiences for their customers. So I'm creating an event. As a marketer, I'm creating an event for marketers to help them be better marketers using technology. So it's a lot about showcase. It's a lot about show and tell. We like to have a bit of a sizzle in there from showing some of the future product that may come out through a session called Sneaks which is super cool, which is stuff that comes out of the Adobe labs in the US or in India, and then, basically, people internally pitch in. Then we show about five or six potentially future technologies that can or may end up in the product. They don't always, but I always love that session. 

Mark Bennedick:
People always like to be seeing what's the latest and greatest.

What do you think are the benefits that the audience gets out of that experience or event that you can't provide through other channels? What are the things that you think ... You probably get some feedback, I guess, from these guys, and this is what we love about it, but I wonder, what do you think is the thing that can't be replicated, that is the reason why you do these types of events and experiences?

Clare Cahill:
So this will be my third year of running this program. It's about seven years old, maybe eight. So when I took the program on, I worked with another lady, also called Clare. That's super confusing. We basically went back, and we did lots of focus groups and talked to the customers about what they wanted to see.

We re-created the event in region so that it was a customer-focused event that basically delivered what the customers needed to see, and they wanted to see inspirations.

They wanted to hear big name speakers. They wanted to hear case studies about how to do it. So there was a lot in the rebuilding of the event, which is about the customer getting the why's of the golden circle of Simon Sinek of why people do what they do.

So we also wanted to take that from stage onto the show floor. So we have these great inspiration speakers and these pieces where the technology is shown, some of that around innovation, some of that around [inaudible 00:07:46], but then take it onto the show floor as well. So the beauty and always the beauty of having a physical event is the customer-to-Adobe interaction. We get to speak with our customers. They get to ask us questions.

When you send a campaign, which is our digital platforms, we send campaigns out to our customers, and we target them very specifically based on where we think their need is. But when you're talking to them face-to-face you can really get to understand what they actually need a lot better. So it provides a platform for our customers to meet with us, our teams, and really get to know them and their needs and wants and all that.

Mark Bennedick:
Yeah. They really get to sort of ask the burning questions that they have...

Clare Cahill:
They do, yeah.

Mark Bennedick:
... for their business that affects them. I guess they can get that instant response, which you might not get any other way, talking to an expert or a specialist at Adobe and get that kind of information back, because I think, yeah, a lot of people do want to hear the generic things that they need to know about, about whatever that product is or business or whatever it might be, but then they always have a specific use case or something going on with their world that they have to kind of challenge what that product can do and learn in that way, I guess.

Clare Cahill:
Absolutely. I think marketing, we always market to them based on where we think they are within their maturity or their life cycle or, we think, the product they might need next but you can't beat that understanding the customer need and you can really do that face-to-face.

Mark Bennedick:
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, we find that when we talk to... Being in the industry, I guess, well, we've talked to a lot of businesses, and some of the challenges that that they face in putting on events sometimes as well is the investment that they have to make. We face it a lot, talking to clients, having to help them build a case for the investment in events as well and experiences, because what I think I've noticed over my time in the industry, pushing 20 years now as well, is that there was that real transition in marketing channels towards digital, because it was… Obviously, it's a new, shiny toy, and you can be amazingly analytical. There's so much data to be collected from it. In data, it's obviously your best friend when it comes to proving your business case.

You've got to show the numbers. But then, at the same time, sort of the mental shift took away from sort of human experience and the importance of that. I think now it feels like it's started to turn back the other way again, where they realise digital can have some amazing benefits and will always will be part of it, but sort of not to forget, I guess, as well that the human component is very important.

I went to the launch of the LinkedIn B2B Institute. It was a week before last.

Clare Cahill:
Yeah, I couldn't get to that. I was very disappointed.

Mark Bennedick:
Oh, you were going to go?

Clare Cahill:
Yeah.

Mark Bennedick:
It was actually a really great event, actually, and they had some amazing insights, some of the insights around, obviously, the balance between brand and more tactical marketing and trying to get that balance right, but then also about how to talk to the CFO as a marketer to try and build that case to them to either retain your budget or be it to gain a larger budget or whatever it might be. Do you have, I guess, any of those kinds of challenges internally, how to justify, therefore measuring the event, and how you justify it and all these types of things?

Clare Cahill:
So, obviously, we use our own technology. So we're like customers there when it comes to digital marketing.

So we actually measure efficiency of spend and the return on investment as well. So there's the two sides. So I think one shouldn't replace the other.

They're an integrated marketing campaign and events. They should partner together, and one can fade at different parts of the life cycle as well. So if you think about awareness, really, a lot of that now is in the digital space. But for us, we measure at different points, and we use different types of events as well experiences for the customers to try and basically push a deal along during that sort of sales cycle as well. So, for example, we have... Part of our agreement in our team is we have an event, an executive experience program, which is all about targeting that C-suite.

We know by targeting the C-suite as part of the overall sales cycle that you speed up the sales cycle. You can increase the deal size as well. So that's a really great example of your return on investment. We actually measure that, and we know by having IT in at certain points that that's really important, as much as having a CMO involved as well. So we're really expanding that C-suite that we have involved in that program.

Mark Bennedick:
So you're actually integrating that into your CRM or into your processes?

Clare Cahill:
Yes, yeah.

Mark Bennedick:
You can really see the tangible difference that that channel makes?

Clare Cahill:
We sure can. I mean, I think the beauty of digital, the absolute beauty of digital is that breadth and volume, but also the personalisation now is becoming so much better. Especially in the B2B space, we're really starting to be able to craft how you talk to your customer. So we do that, too, right?

Mark Bennedick:
Right.

Clare Cahill:
In the B2C, I mean, I've worked in both sides of the business with Adobe. On the B2C side, when you're selling a product that's not as expensive as an enterprise product the efficiency in digital's obviously where you want to be. So you'll probably do a lot less events, and if you do, you want to keep them in the digital space. You want to have those experiences through podcasts or live broadcasts, incurring the same costs.

But I'm thinking, still seeing the efficiency of spend, we still know it's more expensive to run a Symposium or a Summit or something like that for Adobe. However, we know that there's a value, an intangible value, that we get from face-to-face. So as soon as we can actually have our technology, I know they're right there, and I would love to integrate it where you can measure the emotional connection caused by the experience to your brand. That would be a great thing to show to your CFO and say, "We are causing stickiness with our brand through this experience that you cannot do through digital."

So digital could be the breadth. So when you do your brand studies, people know your brand.

But if you can measure that emotional connection, and I think for Adobe, our customers are very emotionally connected to our brand, especially in our B2C side, people using Photoshop and Creative Cloud and using those products for a long time.

Mark Bennedick:
These creative industries.

Clare Cahill:
They love the brand. We have more brand work to do on our digital experience side, but that's really exciting for us as well, because I think that's somewhere where we can accelerate over the next couple of years and actually use technology as part of that event experience to really make sure that the customer's already getting sticky with the brand. We've been playing a bit in that space as well.

Mark Bennedick:
That's an exciting area, because I think that would be a little bit of a Holy Grail moment, I think, to be able to capture that emotional sentiment or whatever it might be to really understand. Obviously, anecdotally, you can look around a room and see people's faces, hear the feedback, all that type of thing, but to able to actually put, I guess, some sort of a tracking or a measurement to that emotional component, which is such a big part of the whole experience, it makes me think a little bit it's like a parallel of brand versus short-term marketing. So brand is a little bit less tangible than, say, the short-term tactical marketing, which can be a little bit more measurable, but it has that longer term view or vision that it kind of provides for the company.

Some of that interesting research that actually came out of that LinkedIn event, too, was that it has an increased sort of net value over your customer over time by ensuring that balance of brand is right. So if you do too little of that, then that has a negative effect as well. So it's an interesting piece, I think, of the whole puzzle as well.

Another thing I just saw recently, Adobe Symposium has been changed to a different - What's all that about? What's the new ...

Clare Cahill:
Super exciting. Yeah. So we've had the privilege of having Symposium in Sydney upgraded to Summit, and it'll be Summit for the APAC region. So we only have two other Summits in the world, and they have both been there since back in the Omniture days, before we bought the company. So they're very bedrock.

So it's a real privilege for us, and I think there's a couple of things I recognise. One is the investment, the ongoing investment in our region. Adobe is very committed to Asia Pacific. It's just been growing and growing, and we had a lot of the senior leadership team come down to Symposium last year.

So when we asked, they said, "Well, you guys are already running a Summit here." But in the background, that was the game we were already playing, that we were good enough to accept that.

But if I think about it as well and we look at where we are from a digital transformation in this market, Australia's a very mature market, Australia, New Zealand, and we've seen amazing stuff happening up in Asia with some of our customers as well.

So I think it's just a real recognition of where this part of the world is, from a digital transformation perspective, and that's very exciting. I think if you look to our brand and our core DNA, we're a creative company who's basically gone on this acquisition journey to acquire these companies that can really help not just create experiences, but then deliver them across many different mediums, whether it be physical in an event or through all the different platforms that we provide for our marketing customers. I think that's super exciting, and there's nobody else that can do that in this part of the world.

Mark Bennedick:
Yeah, yeah, which is amazing. Do you go to some of the Summits overseas to learn the ropes, so to speak, of that particular event, even though you're saying you are kind of executing it almost at that level here anyway?

Clare Cahill:
We are.

Mark Bennedick:
But is there a global consistency, I guess, in these events, or do you tailor it quite a bit for each market as well?

Clare Cahill:
Yeah. So I haven't been to London Summit yet. I'm hoping that ... It's a little bit close to another event for us this year, but hopefully I can get that on my radar for next year.

But I have been to the US one a few times, and I'm going again. It's on at the end of March, 29th of March through the 2nd of April. We do go. That event will have 22,000 people at it. Right? So it's a different volume.

Mark Bennedick:
Wow.

Clare Cahill:
I think it's super exciting. They're actually putting a new technology in that's used called Brain Date.

Mark Bennedick:
Tell me about that. It sounds like a matchmaking app.

Clare Cahill:
It's a bit like a matchmaking app, but for people who want to network at an event.

So I think there's a few problems when you go to an event. You're creating the event experience. You sort of lose your customers when you go in there, and they keep telling you they want to network more.

But when you go through the door, you lose customers a lot. So this is an app that allows you to put in a bit of a profile about things you're interested in. So you might be interested in content creation or data and analytics and a few other things, and it allows you to meet and network with people on-site.

So it should be quite fun. I've been watching this technology for a while. It's used at C2 in Montreal, which is a big creative conference.

Mark Bennedick:
Yeah, yeah. I know C2.

Clare Cahill:
So yeah, so I can't wait to apply to that. We might bring that into Summit here in Sydney.

Mark Bennedick:
So tell me, how does that work in practice? Now it's my event brain starting to think… "How does that actually work in practice?" Is it everyone's on the wifi network and they have to somehow... It can track where everyone is and you can find people of those similar interests?

Clare Cahill:
Correct. Yeah.

Mark Bennedick:
In a way, it almost has a little… Yeah. It's like, "This person here"...

Clare Cahill:
It actually match-makes you, from a business context.

Mark Bennedick:
Do you have a face, where you can see them? You can see that person?

Clare Cahill:
I presume so.

Mark Bennedick:
I'm getting into the weeds here, but I'm interested in it.

Clare Cahill:
I haven't seen the app in practice yet, but I believe that's how it works. I'll give you some more feedback, Mark, when I get back from the US Summit.

Mark Bennedick:
You'll have to. Well, I'll have to think about it.

Clare Cahill:
But we also picked up a technology from C2 a couple of years ago called Click. So I think the biggest problem that people in experiences have, especially when they're running a big event, I think we'll have about 5,000 plus at Summit in Sydney is you lose them the second you go through the door, right? So as soon as you check them in or register them on-site, whatever you call it, they walk through the door, and until they maybe go in and out of a session room, you sort of lose them.

So we used this technology, which was a passive tracking system, basically. So it wasn't about us knowing where our customers were. It was about us learning where our customers were. It also removed the whole process of having to scan people into rooms.

Then it worked on an algorithm around how long they were in the room, sort of to say, "Okay. They've been in there long enough to be clusters in the room." So that let us see where people were at any point during the two days, and it was fascinating to understand the customer journey on-site and where they were and map them live at any point.

Mark Bennedick:
See where they seem to be attracted to. That would be interesting.

Clare Cahill:
What content works?

Mark Bennedick:
Yeah, what content.

Clare Cahill:
Are they leaving early? Are they going to all sessions on the second day? All those sort of things that you would love to know. Are they staying in the session for 90 minutes? Lots of different things. How popular was the show floor?

It all integrated the whole way through into even the exhibitor piece as well. So it was really, really interesting, and I think there is a need in experiences around this event tech stack so we do have a better understanding of customer movement on-site and their likes and dislikes and even their engagement through emotion on-site.

This is where I think a lot of the technology is going to go, and that, to me, is super exciting.

Mark Bennedick:
Yeah, and so that's really cool, because we're constantly thinking about the agendas and how you create the flow and how you create peaks and troughs in energy and build a story and all these things.

A lot of that's being done off, I guess, experience, in having seen and done so many shows. But then this is a great example of what we were talking about before… about how data supports... You're not making assumptions. It's actually data in that way. So it gives you, actually, something tangible to, I guess, parallel against your assumptions and say, "Does that actually hold true, what I'm thinking, or is it just me thinking in some bizarre tangent?"

It's actual proof of your thinking there.

Clare Cahill:
It helps you as well craft, I think, a lot of your content and your flow as well, going forward. So one of the events we've used it in, we've had an argument about whether we run this last session and all, and we sort of proved that 50% of the room had left by the time we were going there, running that session.

It was quite an expensive session to run. So from that, we hope to be able to just reengineer the content a bit better so that we get the session run earlier so that customers are seeing it, because we feel it's quite important.

Mark Bennedick:
So tell me, I mean, as a company, we are always thinking about strategy, creative, digital, those kind of core components, and emotion, I guess, wrapping all of that. Do you have a system or a bit of a process that you start to think about when you start to create, either improving an old experience or creating a new one, or is it ... You mentioned Simon Sinek before, about the why.

Is there a couple of core basics that are worth sort of mentioning to people about how you guys do things and whether that's actually working for you?

Clare Cahill:
Sure. Absolutely. So we definitely start in the strategy space first. We get agreement, we get alignment, and we get sign-off by the leadership.

But we did a session this time, which I did when I reinvented the event with Clare a couple of years ago, and it was around the event ethos.

This is part of our strategy deck now. So we went. Basically, we brought everybody into the room, and we challenged them to think way beyond even their conference zones about what they wanted people to think, see, and feel around the event so that we could create this event ethos. So we then wrote that and put it into the deck, and that's actually going to form a lot of the bridge in the messaging and underpin the event experience. Then, from there, the next place we go to is building what the event experience may be. So it's that what do we want the customers to feel pre, during, and post?

So that whole experience, and what brands do we want to sort of challenge our brand to be like? So we use that as a basis for creating the event experience, and then we look back. Another piece of data we use is the NPS score on the event where people are happy or unhappy. So we use some of that to layer in what are the areas for improvement for the next year, and then when we look at the event experience, we go, "Okay, so how can we flip that from being a negative on an NPS score to being a neutral or a positive?"

That's helped us to reshape the whole event experience. I always challenge the team to bring in experiences that they love or have experienced themselves that made them stickier to other brands. Then we add that sort of context in as well.

So we do have a whole strategy around the event experience. I think it's absolutely key. I think everybody goes to "What's the strategy? What are the messaging pillars? Where is the story arc?", and they don't think about the overall event experience, which pins all of that together. I think the events that I've been to, I actually went to the... They didn't actually run it, but they did a taster of C2 in Melbourne, where they really challenged your senses. I think when you're looking at the event and any event, actually. Ironically, we're in Sense.

It's like you look at all aspects of the event. You look at how they see, feel, smell, taste, the whole music, everything. We think about the whole piece.

That, to us, is core, with the customer at the center of the whole time going, "What do we want the customer to experience?"

I think if you get that, you can always wrangle budgets and experiences that don't cost the earth but still have the customer at the core of it and then create an amazing event and an event experience.

Mark Bennedick:
Yeah. It's interesting you say that. I mean, when you said the name Sense… that's where it was born from, 13 years ago, too, where we were doing lots of events where we felt like they were quite repetitive and formulaic, and we wanted to be focused more on the actual audience and doing something that resonates with them. I think you do have to sometimes pull yourself back from the rational side, where you're thinking about messages and "What are the things I've got to get across, and what do I need them to know about?", at the same time remembering that people are there to have a good time or to learn or to connect with people. I guess that's that balance you're trying to get right, and you really do have to think about that. If you're going to get an emotional connection, it needs to be something meaningful to people. It needs to be something that they actually connect with, and, a lot of the time, that is not the rational. It's the emotional side of the brain.

I guess that opens up and allows people to then be open to the receiving of rational information or messages or to learn. That's what we've found over time as well. So it's interesting you say that and have a similar approach in that way. Think, feel, do.

That's how we label it, too, when we talk about the customer journey and what we want people to think, feel, and do at every touchpoint within that event and what they're going to be learning along the way.

Maybe going back a bit broader, I mean, you've been in this industry a long time. What's some of the highlights or things that you have experienced over time talking about C2 conferences, which is a really cool, creative, and [crosstalk 00:27:47]...

Clare Cahill:
I'd love to go to Vancouver, isn't it, or Montreal, actually?

Mark Bennedick:

Yeah, where it's born out of the Cirque du Soleil crew.

Clare Cahill:
Yeah, I think anything that I've loved or done is something where there has been a level of disruption, and I think that, whilst cookie cutter approaches are efficient, they don't necessarily allow for innovation to happen.

So some of the highlights for me have been taking over an abandoned church, which was sort of a nightclub, in Birmingham in England and causing ... We called it a bash. I used to work for a company called WAM!NET, which was a tech company before the dot com. It went with the dot com.

Then the bubble burst. But they were getting lots of funding, and we had this ridiculous party as part of a print show called IPEX. It was a nine-day show in Birmingham.

It was very hard to do a nine-day show, can I tell you.

Mark Bennedick:
That is a long show.

Clare Cahill:
It was a very long show, but this was the highlight of the event. Everybody talked about it, because we just caused the biggest party. Now, those were the days where experience was still really important, but none of us ... We probably just measured how many paper leads we got off the tracker at the time.

But we really thought about the customer experience and the customer journey for that event, right through from taking them up to this place. They didn't know where they were going which is how C2 actually do it, too. They sort of trick your mind, and then basically having them sit through the sort of early performance, and then sort of things exploded. It was very out there for the time for the industry we were in. But, more recently, I think where we got symposium to two years ago, I think is probably, again, a highlight for me in the whole overall experience, because you know you've nailed it when the only thing people can complain about is the seats.

We have a bit of an internal joke. It's called Chairgate. We have the Chairgate, because the event really disrupted how we'd done things and it took the overall experience to the next level, where everybody right up to the senior leadership was bought in, and we thought about the customer experience through every single touch point. Unfortunately, we didn't realize the seats were going to be uncomfortable, and that's just...

Mark Bennedick:
Chairgate.

Clare Cahill:
We might get a complaint about coffee or air conditioning, in my experience. Those are the three things that come up.

Mark Bennedick:
Yes. Yeah, and you have to take some of them with a grain of salt.

Clare Cahill:
You do. You take them with a grain of salt, but I think, looking at people's faces as they experienced that event, because we didn't have a measurement of the emotion people were smiling. I look back at the photographs when I've been flicking through them for different things, and there's just these faces lit by the stage lights, looking up at the content and the overall experience that we created through that event. We just thought about it everywhere. So I was super proud of what we created as a team.

Yes, we look forward to our next challenge of Summit in August.

Mark Bennedick:
We're very close to time now as well. You were saying that... Obviously, we've talked a lot about Summit and Symposium, but what are the other just broad range of work that you guys do in a day? Because I imagine that's just one thing that...

Clare Cahill:
Sure. I mean, we have a big partner channel, so companies like Deloitte and Accenture are part of our partner network, and we run an exec experience for our partners up in Bangkok, which is central for the whole region. So we have partners from India through to New Zealand basically come to Bangkok.

It was an educational experience, but we created a really Thai-themed experience around the whole event and took 40 tuk-tuks out on a tour with...

Mark Bennedick:
That could go well or not so well.

Clare Cahill:
Yeah. It actually went really well. I know. But it was a video experience, so we showed them one of our products called Rush.

We gave them gimbals. We took them out to the temples and took them out literally in rush hour traffic with a police escort. Luckily, everything went according to plan.

Mark Bennedick:
Wow.

Clare Cahill:
So that was an amazing experience.

Mark Bennedick:
Great. That's organised chaos in Bangkok.

Clare Cahill:
Organised chaos, it was. We do a lot of exec experiences from round tables through to we do these, again, education about premium photography experiences. At six-star venues across Australia and in India, those particular ones are run. That's for our C-suite customers, and they're as much about building a relationship with our really important customers through to, actually, we give them a bit of education around Photoshop and Lightroom, and these are our digital experience customers.

But everybody loves better photography. We all take photographs.

That's why we were able to pull the video in the Lightroom products into our digital experience business. So, again, it keeps us core to who we are as a creative company and it gives them an opportunity to network with our senior leadership team. So those are some of the things that our team do.

Mark Bennedick:
A range, quite a quite a range of different things then. Yeah. Well, look, Clare, thank you so much for coming on and spending some time. I'm sure you're very busy, and you've got a lot of stuff going on in your business world, but I really appreciate the time, coming in and chatting with us.

Clare Cahill:
Thank you very much.